New Online Direct Bank: OnBank from M&T

image It's been six months since the last direct bank launch, Provident Direct (coverage here). The latest entry is OnBank from M&T Bank, a $66 billion bank based in Buffalo, NY. 

OnBank passes our strict 25-word homepage standard, joining ING Direct, EmigrantDirect on the short list of financial institutions with Google-like clarity on their home page. It takes just a few seconds to know that this is a place to get a high rate of interest on your money, but you should look elsewhere for a commercial loan.

The user has just two main choices of what to do next (screenshots below):

  1. Apply…encased in a trendy lime green button
  2. More details…which leads to an equally succinct page that answers the important questions (see last screenshot below):
    – fee free
    – minimum balance of $1
    – FDIC insured
    – quick online opening process

The only thing missing is a comparison to other banks. Given that it's one of the highest savings rates available right now, OnBank should be aggressively showing how it compares to key online rivals, including ING Direct's 3%.

Not only is the bank direct and to the point in its copywriting, it also uses simple, effective graphics, including a gimmick sure to gain attention. To reinforce its 24/7 "always on" branding, OnBank takes a page from the iPhone weather forecast interface, showing the current time in reverse lettering in front of a background image that changes to match the time of day. As you can see in the three screenshots below: daylight (4:42 PM), sun setting (8:58 PM), and nighttime (9:02 PM). Presumably they also have a sunrise background. The bank displays the time according to the user's machine, PDT in my case.

We didn't test the Metavante-powered online application all the way through, but it looked relatively straightforward, although graphically not as appealing as the other OnBank pages.

Thanks to Bank Deals for the find.

OnBank homepage during daytime (17 April 2008)

M&T's OnBank homepage

Evening (16 April 2008)

image

Night (16 April 2008)

image

"More details page" (17 April 2008)

OnBank more details page

Deja Vu: The First* Canadian Person-to-Person Lending Service Readies for Launch — CommunityLend

imageCommunity Lend reached out to bloggers last week to get the launch buzz started (note 1). The site appears ready to go, all it needs is a loan/borrow signup form in place the email notification box in the center of the homepage (below).

From the look of it, the startup has a good design team. It's direct and to the point in the main section while staying fresh with blog posts, selected news stories, and press releases displayed in widget-like boxes along the bottom of the screen (below the fold on my laptop). But I'll reserve judgement until I see the actual lending and borrowing screens when they become available.

The most interesting part of the pre-release info was the list of official advisors to the startup which included Virgin Money (US) CEO Asheesh Advani as well as the Phil Hopper, CEO of Australian P2P lender, iGrin. It will be interesting to see if those relationships turn into future Canadian partnerships.

For more information on P2P lending, see our recent Online Banking Report (#148/149) and catch Prosper and Loanio on stage at our FinovateStartup April 29 in San Francisco.

__________________________________________________

*Technically, IOU Central was first in the Canadian market. However, a few weeks after launch it was forced to shut down as it works to satisfy regulators (coverage here). Therefore, the honor looks like it will go to CommunityLend.

 

CommunityLend pre-launch homepage (17 April 2008)
CommunityLend home page pre-launch

 
Note:

1. Blogger outreach is the modern day equivalent to the press conference. Dave Colman's emails to bloggers resulted in five blog posts that same day, and that's without any news other than its UNOPENED site had been remodeled. Think back to the last time you revamped your website, did you get five press mentions?  

E*Trade Bank Posts Savings Rates on Twitter

imageI was searching Twitter today to see if any major brokerages were using it to reach out to customers. The only hit was E*Trade which is using Twitter to update its Complete Savings Account rates. It seems to be coming from the bank, but it's possible someone else, perhaps an employee or fan, is responsible for the two entries: the first on March 12 announcing a 3.45% yield and then on April 1 when the rate dropped to 3.01% (note 1).

Regardless of who's responsible, it makes sense to use the new channel for outbound communications. If nothing else, the 90 seconds spent creating those two entries have already generated a favorable mention in this blog. 

For those of you not familiar with Twitter, it's a communications tool that allows users to post short (140 characters max) updates about what they are doing, what they are thinking, or anything else. Unless the user chooses to make their updates private, anyone can read them, just like a blog post. That's why Twittering is sometimes called micro-blogging. But it's more like "broadcast instant messaging" for most people who's musing will be seen by just a handful of friends, family and/or colleagues.

For more info from an actual Twitter user, read Ron Shevlin's recent post.

image

Note:

1. I suspect it's an "unofficial" Twitter page because they didn't put APY behind the percentage, although that is spelled out in the short bio section in the upper right, and they are not using the company logo.

Two Weeks Until FinovateStartup, "Demo" for Financial Services & Technology Innovators

image If you’ve been reading NetBanker for the past few months, you’ve heard about our upcoming conference, FinovateStartup: Demo’ing the Future of Finance.

Reminder: It’s Tuesday, April 29, at the UCSF Mission Bay campus just south of downtown San Francisco (previous coverage here). It’s an offshoot of our first Finovate conference (videos here) held last fall in New York City (note 1).

Forty startups will demo their latest and greatest (note 2) on the big screen. There will be several industry debuts, a handful of a new product launches, and hundreds of new twists unveiled that day. 

While coverage by more than two dozen press, analysts, and bloggers at the event should provide a good overview of what’s going on, there is nothing like being there (note 3). Imagine talking to 10, 20, or 30 founders and senior execs in a single day. It will make your head spin, but by the time you get back to the office, you will have been exposed to a year’s worth of new ideas. The value = priceless. 

image

Notes:
1. We return to New York on Oct 14 for the second annual Finovate conference. It’s the Tuesday after Columbus Day, so if you want to make a long weekend out of it, you might want to book hotel space now. It’s a lot more than San Francisco (see #3), but it will only get worse. And you can lock in super-early-bird prices by registering for the conference today. Because it’s NYC, seating is limited, so don’t put it off too long. We sold out in about six weeks last year.

2. Unfortunately, Lending Club will not be able to present at FinovateStartup due to the quiet period as they register to sell securities (see coverage here). We have several companies looking to take their place, so we still expect to have 40 demos.

3. It must be a relatively slow week in downtown San Francisco, as hotel rooms are as cheap as we’ve seen them in years. We have 5 rooms at the Parc55, averaging about $130 per night plus tax. The average daytime high is 65 that time of year, so come out for the weekend and enjoy the Bay Area in spring.

Digital Federal Credit Union and Four Others Offer Consumer Remote Deposit Capture Through EasCorp

VIP Deposit from Sharon Credit Union USAA is no longer the only financial institution offering consumers the ability to deposit paper checks from the comfort of home using standard home scanning technology (see previous coverage here).

image Through DepoZip, a new offering from Massachusetts-based corporate credit union, EasCorp, five northeastern credit unions have recently begun offering remote deposit capture services for their members. In addition, Austin, TX-based Randolph-Brooks FCU is slated to launch it later this spring.

According to its published prices, the cost is $15,000 to implement the program ($5,000 for the license and $10,000 for training), then $100/mo plus $0.40 per active user plus $0.01 per its plus applicable image processing fees which range from $0.03 to $0.14 per item. Compared to manually handling deposits at the teller window, that’s a bargain. 

The service was piloted beginning in August last year and launched in November at Sharon Credit Union (see inset image) and Hanscom Federal Credit Union. The latest to roll it out is 300,000 member Digital Federal Credit Union. 

Company HQ Size Service Name Launch Date
Sharon CU Sharon, MA $590 mil assets VIP Deposit (Virtual Item Processing) Nov 2007
Hanscom FCU Bedford, MA $280 mil assets Easy Deposit Nov 2007 (pilot began Aug 2007)
Service CU Portsmouth, N.H. $1 billion assets   Dec 2007
Paragon FCU Montvale, NJ $390 mil assets
62,000 members
eDeposit Jan 2008
Digital FCU Marlborough, MA 320,000 members; 150,000 banking online PC Deposit Feb 2008
(2000 members enrolled in first 3 weeks; pilot began Aug 2007)
Randolph-Brooks FCU San Antonio, TX $3 billion assets
250,000 members
  coming in late spring

Tax Prep 2.0: Does H&R Block’s Tango Provide a New Model for Pricing Online Financial Services?

imageFive days from the U.S. income tax deadline, tax prep ads are everywhere. I don't usually notice them because I still file the old-fashioned way, via CPA (note 1) and paper check. However, yesterday I noticed H&R Block's banner strung across the top of TechCrunch (screenshot below).

It caught my eye for a several reasons:

  • 24/7 access to live tax help, a real benefit to the legions of last-minute filers.
  • The "Tango" branding really intrigued me. How could a tax service be interesting enough to have its own brand, especially one as off-beat as Tango (note 2)?

The Tango product, complete with YouTube videos, <wannatango.com> URL, and more, deserves a post of its own, but here I want to focus on Block's pricing/segmentation.

The tax-prep giant divided its online services into two distinct categories, both catering to the computer savvy do-it-yourself crowd. Block calls the segments: "Do it Myself" and "Do it With Me" (screenshot below) with pricing as follows:

Do it myself:

  • $14.95 for 1040EZ
  • $29.95 for 1040 with itemized deductions
  • $59.95 for 1040 with state return

Do it with me:

  • $70 Tango option — complete online and submit yourself with unlimited 24/7 support (includes state return)
  • $99.95 (+$34.95 for state) complete yourself and then route to an H&R Block agent to review and e-file
  • $99.95 (+$34.95 for state) and above (note 3) to fill out an online questionaire and submit your data to have someone at H&R Block complete the return for you

image

NetBanker strategic action item
Banks, take notice. Block's pricing strategy is brilliant and if applied to online banking, could revive the difficult business case. Online banking, like electronic tax prep, is a mature business, and has long ago proven itself as valuable and convenient.

Now it's time to cash in on that convenience. While levying fees across the board would create customer ill-will, it's possible to segment your online banking base into customers who want plain vanilla services for free and those that want the best, and are willing to pay for it. Block's Tango is a good example of how to price for those who want to go it alone for the lowest cost and those that want high-tech online services AND high-touch tech support.

A bank or credit union could mimic the Block program:

  • Do it myself (FREE): Download data, set up my bills, create triggered alerts, monitor my own security settings, read my own credit report, store my own statements on my hard drive, and so on
  • Do it with me ($5/mo): 24/7 access to an online specialist who will provide advice, assistance, and help doing any of the above. Added bonus: lifetime storage of all transactions, statements, and check images!!!

Call it VIP Banking and start turning online banking into a profit center. With dedicated fee income you will have fewer problems during the looming crisis in online banking measurement

For more on online banking pricing and how to develop a premium-priced online banking service, see our Online Banking Report: Pricing – The "Fee" vs. "Free" Controversy (#109).
 

H&R Block Banner on TechCrunch (9 April 2008, 1 PM Pacific)

H&R Block Tango advertised on TechCrunch

Landing page from TechCrunch banner (9 April 2008)

H&R Block landing page from TechCrunch banner

Tango homepage (9 April 2008)

H&R Block Tango home

Notes:

1. In testing Turbotax and TaxCut, I have found both to be intuitive and surprisingly easy to use, even for relatively complicated returns with business deductions. This year, I did my teen's return on the free TurboTax online site, which was very slick. My son's already deposited his $2 refund into his online bank account.

2. H&R Block's Tango actually has a Wikipedia listing (within the H&R Block entry). That's something you don't see too often. According to Wikipedia, the Tango service first appeared last year for 2006 returns, but was plagued by computer glitches that forced the company to issue refunds. But it received good reviews this year, scoring an 82 here, just two points less than leader TurboTax Online. Tango finished ahead of the other four sites reviewed (here).

3. My federal returns would cost $199.80 through this most expensive option, about $500 less than my CPA.

Online Financial Services Scorecard: February 2008

image

Summary
According to data from Compete's consumer panel, both applicants and shoppers in all segments dropped in February. Recession fears appear to be negatively impacting sales activity. However, conversion rates stayed relatively constant except for credit cards, indicating that those still shopping are serious buyers. 

Commentary

  • The credit card industry saw a slight decline in both shoppers and applicants (note 1). This has been the case for the past few months following the large holiday push by the credit card companies. Conversion dropped significantly to 23%, down 6% from January and down 9% from December. However, it's back to where it was in second quarter 2007, so it may be more of a seasonal drop than a falloff in demand. 
  • Deposits saw losses across all three segments, especially high-yield savings which was down 25% in applications, as the Fed's rate cuts trickled through the banking industry. In checking, all but two competitors tracked saw decreased application volumes. 
  • Refinance mortgages had the biggest drop in February, posting a 30% decline in shoppers and 19% in applications. Purchase mortgages saw a similar decline in applications (down 18%), but only an 18% drop in shoppers. 
  • The home equity segment fared the best in the home loan category with 10% fewer applications and an 8% drop in shoppers.

About the Financial Services Scorecard
In April, we introduced the Financial Services Monthly Performance scorecard produced by Compete. It summarizes the overall performance of 23 large U.S. financial institutions and lead-generation sites. Refer here for the detailed methodology as well as companies tracked.

Note:
1. There was a change in Compete's methodology for measuring credit card shopping activity, so February's count January's cannot be compared. However, the 4% decline shown in the chart is correct, reflecting the change from what January would have been under the new methodology. 

Lending Club Abruptly Shuts Down Peer Lending

Breaking news: P2P lender LendingClub, which had been gaining ground rapidly on industry leader Prosper (post here), stopped accepting new money for lending through its platform. The company says it will continue to accept loan applications, funding them out of its own account. There is no indication whether the company has secured additional funding to maintain or grow its current $4 million per month origination pace. It's feasible that a bank and/or private investors could step in to fill the void. Some speculation here, here, and here (includes reprint of the email sent to lenders from the company). 

I logged into my LendingClub account, which has a small cash balance, and found that the lending function has been disabled. I could browse loans and withdraw my money, but I could not bid on loans or add new funds. A message appears on most screens telling users they cannot make new loans at this time (see screenshot below).

LendingClub alerts users to the freeze on new lending

The company's blog entry dated 7 April (see below) from founder Renaud Laplanche, offers few details, saying the company has:

…started a process to register, with the appropriate securities authorities, promissory notes that may be offered and sold … through our site in the future.

Furthermore, due to the registration period:

….the company will undergo a quiet period, and will not be able to respond to press and other inquiries…

Depending on how the promissory notes are structured, they may or may not be a departure from the P2P lending model currently employed. We'll update this post when we get more information.

LendingClub 7 April blog entry announcing freeze in new lenders

For more information on the person-to-person lending market, see our recent Online Banking Report.

Update 8 April, 11 AM Pacific: Prosper's statement:

Person-to-person lending is an increasingly popular way for individuals to borrow and lend money at attractive interest rates. Understandably, it must be done in a secure and trusted way. While we’re not in a position to comment on another company’s regulatory stance, Prosper believes that the way we have structured the Prosper marketplace is in compliance with applicable state and federal laws. Currently Prosper has over 650,000 members, and more than $130 million in loans have funded through the Prosper marketplace.

 

Christophe Langlois of UK’s Visible Banking to Live Blog at FinovateStartup

image Once again, we'll have an international blogging presence at our upcoming financial technology conference. Visible Banking's Christophe Langlois will capture the action at FinovateStartup in live blogs on NetBanker as well as video interviews and posts on Visible Banking.

If you haven't yet subscribed to Visible Banking, you should. It's a great way to add an international perspective and learn from someone who is a social media expert AND a true insider, working at one of the largest banks in the United Kingdom. Christophe also does a great job peppering his blog with short videos of key players (the example below shows Peter Hazlehurst from Yodlee being interviewed after his demo at Finovate NYC last fall).

image

Q1 Prosper/Lending Club Loan Volumes Up 55% (Y/Y)

lendingclub_logoLast week's post on P2P lending traffic prompted several comments on how worthless website traffic is as a metric, especially when the two major players make their loan-production numbers public. With that in mind, I present the Q1 total loan production for Lending Club and Prosper.

prosper_logoWhile Prosper still had twice the overall loan volume of Lending Club in Q1 ($21 vs. $10 million), Lending Club is closing the gap in the prime/near-prime market (FICO 640+) originating two-thirds the volume of Prosper in March ($4 vs. $6 million). But if you take into account Lending Club's more stringent debt-to-income requirements (max 30%), the newcomer actually surpassed Prosper in these lower-risk loans ($4.1 vs. $3.7 million in March).  

While the two-horse race is an interesting sidelight, the more important statistic is industry growth. In Q1, Prosper and Lending Club combined for more than $30 million in originations, up $10.7 million (55%) compared to about $20 million in Q1 2007. Only $3.4 million of the Q1 total (17%) was subprime, compared to $7.0 million (36%) a year ago.

Loan originations doubled in the prime/near prime (Prosper grades AA to C and all of Lending Club) ending the quarter at just under $27 million.

Why so much attention to a tiny sliver of the $2.5 trillion U.S. consumer loan market? It's new. It's different. It's social. And it's an experiment in online finance we get to watch in real time thanks to the transparency of the lenders. For more info on the market, see our recent Online Banking Report on P2P lending.

Q1 2008 Loan Volume: Prosper vs. Lending Club
in $ millions (U.S. only)

  Prosper
All Grades
Prosper
AA-C*
Prosper AA-C
Low DTI**
Lending Club*** Total
Q1 2008 $20.5 $17.1 $10.7 $9.8 $30.3
   March $7.3 $6.0 $3.7 $4.1 $11.4
   Feb $6.0 $4.9 $2.9 $2.9 $8.9
   Jan $7.2 $6.1 $4.0 $2.8 $10.0
Q1 2007 $19.6 $12.6 $8.0 n/a $19.6
'08 vs. '07 +$0.9 +$4.5 +$2.7 +$10.7
% change +4.6% +36% +34% +55%

Source: Online Banking Report compilation of company data, 2 April 2008
*Loans made to Prosper grade AA through C borrowers (FICO 640+)
**Loans made to Prosper grade AA through C borrowers with debt-to-income (DTI) less than 30% 
***Lending Club only makes loans primarily to the "prime/low DTI" segment (FICO 640+, DTI <30%)

Note:
1. These prime/near prime/subprime distinctions can help financial institutions compare their prices to the marketplace rates.

Deposit Paper Checks via Mobile Phone?

imageimageJudging by the title and the date of this post,  you might think it a prank.

But no, Mitek Systems has actually developed software that lets you deposit paper checks by taking their picture with your mobile phone and transmitting the images to your bank. The company has a good demo of the service on the product page.

The company first demo'd it to bankers at BAI's Transpay in early February (press release here). I wasn't there but I heard it was a must-see on the trade show floor.

Here's how it works:

  • Call up the app on your phone (first-time users would need to download the app from the bank)
  • Log in
  • Enter the amount of the check
  • Take a photo of the front of the check
  • Wait for the software to optimize the photo
  • Take a photo of the back of the check
  • Wait for the software to optimize the photo
  • Transmit it to the bank
  • Receive a confirmation message from the bank

Analysis
I'll admit, I didn't see this one coming. And I still can't decide if it's a good idea. On the one hand, it's cool and innovative and allows you to do something on your mobile that you really can't do on your PC (although a digital camera hooked to your PC could do the same thing). I could imagine a smaller service business with just a couple checks per month using it. The photo documentation of the deposited check would be handy to have and a dedicated check scanner is too pricey (note 1).

But for consumers? Not many would go through this much trouble to deposit a check. It would be easier to drop it in an ATM, the mail, or walk it into their branch during lunch hour. And no major business can use it. Biz owners don't want their bookkeepers snapping photos of customer checks with their Razr. 

If you have a massive tech budget, it might be worth the cost to demonstrate that you are the leading innovator in your market. Or if your mobile banking vendor can deliver this capability within a larger mobile banking system for little or no extra cost, give it some thought.

But if your are already behind on your 2008 plan, your budget fits on the display of an eight-digit calculator, or you are still haven't gotten around to creating an iPhone button for your bank, this is not the project for you.

Let me know what you think.  

Note:

1. CheckFree or USAA's system using existing home scanners might work better for most small- or micro-businesses.

CheckFree/SunTrust Link Ebill Usage to Profitability

Graphic from SunTrust ebill pageimageIt comes as no surprise to anyone that online banking and bill pay customers are more profitable than non-adopters. This correlation, driven by the favorable demographics and lower attrition of online adopters, has clearly been established since the early days of the Web.

What's far more difficult to prove is causation. Does online banking/bill pay actually lead to more profits? The main hypothesis: by locking customers into an electronic service, they are not only less likely to move their accounts, they will also consolidate deposits and other financial activity at the provider of the online services. We'll get back to that.

It's not surprise that ebill users are more profitable
But first, here's some new correlation data from SunTrust that can help you benchmark your own performance or serve as a proxy for your business case. The study was released in late 2007 and was underwritten by ebill provider, CheckFree. The research company, Aspen Analytics, published a short white paper on the project here. And Forrester's Cathy Graeber published a research note three weeks ago here.  The two companies presented their findings in a webinar this week (replay here).

One interesting aspect of this study is that ebill customers were segmented into casual users that viewed one or two ebills per month and heavy users that looked at 3 or more ebills each month. The heavy users owned 5% more SunTrust products and were 20% more profitable to the bank (see chart 1 below).

image
Source: Aspen Analytics/CheckFree, Nov. 2007
Projections based on 13 months of SunTrust data captured between Feb. 2006 and Feb. 2007

Even more dramatic was the correlation between online product usage and attrition, defined as the closure of the primary SunTrust checking account. Offline customers were six times more likely to close their accounts in the six-month observation period
than heavy ebill users (see note 1). image Source: Aspen Analytics/CheckFree, Nov. 2007

The bottom line: 5-year NPV for heavy ebill users was 36% higher than those that used bill-pay only and nearly double the online-banking-only population (no use of bill pay
or ebilling). 

image 
Source: Aspen Analytics/CheckFree, Nov. 2007

But does ebill use CAUSE profits to increase?
The correlation data above illustrates the importance of taking good care of bill pay/ebill customers. However, to justify incremental investment, you need to know the expected payback, i.e., how much more revenue/profits can you expect by moving customers into ebilling.

This study made a concerted effort to determine if the use of free ebilling services can leads to more profits. The researchers normalized the population across hundreds of product, tenure and demographic variables drawn from SunTrust's own CRM files and from appended Equifax info. But absent full before-and-after interviews with the subjects, it's still just a model it hard to fully test. There could be important factors outside the SunTrust/Experian datasets that account for lower attrition. For example, perhaps the well-heeled online banking customers who closed their primary SunTrust checking account in late 2006 stayed away from ebills because they had a sense they would be moving in the near future, so why bother setting up ebills.

But with these caveats in place, it does appear this study demonstrates that moving customers into the heavy ebill category causes them to be more loyal, at least in the short term. Cathy Graeber, the Forrester VP participating in the webinar, certainly thinks so.

The following chart shows that about half the decline in customer churn (36 points) has nothing to do with ebill usage but should be attributed to the favorable customer profile of ebill users. However, the remainder of the decline (32 points), is attributable to being heavily involved in ebills (viewing 3 or more per month). Put another way, ebilling decreases the expected attrition of this type of customer household by almost 50%. 

 

image 
Source: Aspen Analytics, The E-Bill Effect:  The Impact on Customer Attrition from Banks that Offer E-Bill, Nov. 2007
Note: Ebill customers in this example are heavy users looking at 3 or more ebills per month.


Bottom line
If those results hold true for other banks' customer bases, it could justify significant investment in ebilling activation programs. For example, if you value an active checking account at $200 per year and it costs $100 to convert them to ebilling, and you achieve a 33% reduction in attrition, the net gain is $230 per new ebill account over five years. Convert 10,000 users and the NPV would be more than $1.5 million (see note 2).

Even if you discount the results due to research bias (it was after all underwritten by the leading ebill provider) or you take issue with the methodology, it does appear that the companies have proven a material reduction in attrition by frequent ebill usage.

And to give it the final "co
mmon sense" test. It does seem logical that someone who's taken the trouble to set up online banking, online bill pay, and register three or more bills for delivery, would tend to be less likely to ditch their checking account for that sexy deal across town.  

Notes:

Definition of customer segments:

  • Overall = Entire SunTrust customer base
  • Offline = SunTrust customers that do not use its online banking or bill pay/ebills
  • Online = SunTrust customers who use online banking but NOT bill pay/ebills
  • Bill pay only = SunTrust customers who use its online bill pay system, but NOT ebills
  • E-bill = SunTrust customers who use its ebill service and view 1 or 2 bills per month on average
  • 3+ E-bills = SunTrust customers who use its ebill service and view 3 or more bills per month

1. Attrition was defined as anyone who closed their primary SunTrust checking account between Sep 2006 and Feb 2007 and did not open a new one during that period. It's a pretty short window, so that's one limitation of the findings that you should be aware of. Over a two or three year period, their could be much different results.

2. $200 saved x 5 years x 33% attributed to the ebill program = $330 gain less the $100 cost to convert to ebilling = $230. Across 10,000 customers the total net gain would be $2.3 million. Discounted at 12%, the NPV is more than $1.5 million.